Comments on: Me and White Guys… Part 2 http://antibias.wordpress.com/2006/12/09/me-and-white-guys-part-2/ Changing the world means starting with myself. Sat, 28 Feb 2009 18:08:39 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: My Life as A Radical Whore/Madonna » Blog Archive » Anti-Bias Bloggin’… http://antibias.wordpress.com/2006/12/09/me-and-white-guys-part-2/#comment-2686 My Life as A Radical Whore/Madonna » Blog Archive » Anti-Bias Bloggin’… Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:46:43 +0000 http://antibias.wordpress.com/2006/12/09/me-and-white-guys-part-2/#comment-2686 [...] Me and White Guys, Part 2 [...] [...] Me and White Guys, Part 2 [...]

]]> By: Timbo http://antibias.wordpress.com/2006/12/09/me-and-white-guys-part-2/#comment-2621 Timbo Wed, 21 Nov 2007 03:39:57 +0000 http://antibias.wordpress.com/2006/12/09/me-and-white-guys-part-2/#comment-2621 I really don't want to spend a lot of time organizing my thoughts, so take this as just a brain dump. In the local Walmart SuperCenter, almost everyone is oblivious to everyone else. The majority in that store are Blacks and Hispanics. They don't pay attention to me and are inconsiderate, just like the white folks. On the elevator at work the other day, three black women got on. Not one of them noticed me. Yesterday, two very self important white guys got on the elevator. Not only did they not notice me, they blocked the escalator we have to use to get to the ground level. I'm routinely ignored by Asians, even though my wife is Asian. Who am I? I'm a middle-aged white guy who's had to work for everything. Whose parents were divorced very early. Who grew up without a Mom because she was in mental hospitals. Who started life on welfare. Who dropped out of high school, but now makes a great salary. Am I privileged? Maybe people are just inconsiderate. Maybe if I run into someone, I'm preoccupied. (I usually apologize, even if it's not my fault.) Maybe I'm just busy trying to take care of my family and my sick wife. BTW, I did notice you. I really don’t want to spend a lot of time organizing my thoughts, so take this as just a brain dump.

In the local Walmart SuperCenter, almost everyone is oblivious to everyone else. The majority in that store are Blacks and Hispanics. They don’t pay attention to me and are inconsiderate, just like the white folks.

On the elevator at work the other day, three black women got on. Not one of them noticed me.

Yesterday, two very self important white guys got on the elevator. Not only did they not notice me, they blocked the escalator we have to use to get to the ground level.

I’m routinely ignored by Asians, even though my wife is Asian.

Who am I? I’m a middle-aged white guy who’s had to work for everything. Whose parents were divorced very early. Who grew up without a Mom because she was in mental hospitals. Who started life on welfare. Who dropped out of high school, but now makes a great salary. Am I privileged?

Maybe people are just inconsiderate. Maybe if I run into someone, I’m preoccupied. (I usually apologize, even if it’s not my fault.) Maybe I’m just busy trying to take care of my family and my sick wife.

BTW, I did notice you.

]]> By: M. Taylor http://antibias.wordpress.com/2006/12/09/me-and-white-guys-part-2/#comment-2595 M. Taylor Thu, 11 Oct 2007 12:59:58 +0000 http://antibias.wordpress.com/2006/12/09/me-and-white-guys-part-2/#comment-2595 Hi...I would like to say that your account does matter and shouldn't be overlooked. It seems you were a bit unfair to Allan, however. I'm not male, but I could see what he was saying. We all have different experiences in life. To attribute or interpret a person's rude actions as racism makes little sense. Would you have reacted differently if that guy had been a person of color? Allan didn't accuse you of anything. He was simply offering his perspective from the other side as a white male. He wasn't downplaying your views on the whole situation. You're a black woman who feels sidelined by white males and white society. How do you deal with this? Sometimes rudeness is simply rudeness. It isn't always about race. Sometimes it is and yes, that can be painful, but that is when it should be confronted. I don't know what other painful experiences you've had with white males or white people, but all I can say is that you cannot control or alter the actions of people around you. When somebody pushes your buttons you have to be the bigger person. You only have control over your own thoughts, feelings, and reactions in situations like this. If not...you're allowing the other person's behavior to influence you. You're giving them power over you. Please don't feel like this is an attack, because it isn't. All I'm saying is that you need to rise above the damaging behavior (whether real or perceived) of white men around you. Some people will never change their attitudes or beliefs about women or people of color, but you can change your feelings towards white men and learn to forgive. I did. Hi…I would like to say that your account does matter and shouldn’t be overlooked. It seems you were a bit unfair to Allan, however. I’m not male, but I could see what he was saying. We all have different experiences in life. To attribute or interpret a person’s rude actions as racism makes little sense. Would you have reacted differently if that guy had been a person of color? Allan didn’t accuse you of anything. He was simply offering his perspective from the other side as a white male. He wasn’t downplaying your views on the whole situation. You’re a black woman who feels sidelined by white males and white society. How do you deal with this? Sometimes rudeness is simply rudeness. It isn’t always about race. Sometimes it is and yes, that can be painful, but that is when it should be confronted. I don’t know what other painful experiences you’ve had with white males or white people, but all I can say is that you cannot control or alter the actions of people around you. When somebody pushes your buttons you have to be the bigger person. You only have control over your own thoughts, feelings, and reactions in situations like this. If not…you’re allowing the other person’s behavior to influence you. You’re giving them power over you. Please don’t feel like this is an attack, because it isn’t. All I’m saying is that you need to rise above the damaging behavior (whether real or perceived) of white men around you. Some people will never change their attitudes or beliefs about women or people of color, but you can change your feelings towards white men and learn to forgive. I did.

]]> By: mamablossom http://antibias.wordpress.com/2006/12/09/me-and-white-guys-part-2/#comment-2264 mamablossom Sat, 23 Jun 2007 12:21:30 +0000 http://antibias.wordpress.com/2006/12/09/me-and-white-guys-part-2/#comment-2264 Allan - thank you for taking the time to respond. I have tried to make the point here that I am only mildly concerned with the intentions of inconsiderate people. Intentions matter, but not nearly as much as actions and their outcomes. I'd also like to say that I feel it is in poor taste to appropriate my words and turn them around to make your point. I know that your INTENTION was not to highjack my ideas for your own intellectual, rhetorical benefit. I know you didn't INTEND to offend me by taking my honest account, my internal struggle, my vulnerability and wielding them to accuse me (hypothetically) of what amounts to "reverse discrimination." I know your INTENT was not to reinforce the negative feelings that I have about white guys and the way that they sometimes walk all over you without even realizing it. I'm sure you weren't INTENDING to do any of those things. Unfortunately that's just what happened. You took my voice and used it to make this all about you. To answer your question, Yes. It is dehumanizing whenever we respond to people based on stereotypes and assumptions. I believe that I alluded to that in my original post. My whole purpose in this is to (slowly) work my way out of the trappings of prejudice and bias. I've admitted to that and am dealing with it. What have you admitted to? What are you dealing with? I would suggest you use your own words and ideas to solve your own problems. Thanks, Atena Allan – thank you for taking the time to respond.

I have tried to make the point here that I am only mildly concerned with the intentions of inconsiderate people. Intentions matter, but not nearly as much as actions and their outcomes.

I’d also like to say that I feel it is in poor taste to appropriate my words and turn them around to make your point. I know that your INTENTION was not to highjack my ideas for your own intellectual, rhetorical benefit. I know you didn’t INTEND to offend me by taking my honest account, my internal struggle, my vulnerability and wielding them to accuse me (hypothetically) of what amounts to “reverse discrimination.” I know your INTENT was not to reinforce the negative feelings that I have about white guys and the way that they sometimes walk all over you without even realizing it. I’m sure you weren’t INTENDING to do any of those things.

Unfortunately that’s just what happened. You took my voice and used it to make this all about you.

To answer your question, Yes. It is dehumanizing whenever we respond to people based on stereotypes and assumptions. I believe that I alluded to that in my original post. My whole purpose in this is to (slowly) work my way out of the trappings of prejudice and bias. I’ve admitted to that and am dealing with it.

What have you admitted to? What are you dealing with? I would suggest you use your own words and ideas to solve your own problems.

Thanks,

Atena

]]> By: Allan http://antibias.wordpress.com/2006/12/09/me-and-white-guys-part-2/#comment-15 Allan Wed, 17 Jan 2007 20:33:55 +0000 http://antibias.wordpress.com/2006/12/09/me-and-white-guys-part-2/#comment-15 Me and Black Girls by Allan, a white guy The problems happen most often on public transportation. It tends to play out like this: I get on a train. All the seats are full except for one next to a black woman. I move towards the seat. I begin to worry. If I sit down will she think that I think that “I’m mister Center-of-the-Universe-White-Guy! I don’t have to pay attention to the world around me ’cause I’m mister Center-of-the-Universe-White-Guy, and everyone should just get out of my way.”? I decide to stand. The train shudders, and my backpack bumps the woman. I feel the bump but am uncertain what to do. Should I do nothing? It’s the El, this happens, right? Or should I apologize? I look at her and she’s staring at me pointedly. Maybe I stammer out an apology or maybe I do nothing. Either way, I feel threatened. Does she think that I “wander around the world, knocking women and people of color toward and over the margins, oblivious to the trail of wreckage [I] leave behind”? If I apologize too profusely then maybe I will appear “desperate to give the impression of having shed [my] privilege.” However I respond, I always spend some amount of time feeling worse about these encounters than I think I ought to. Wishing I’d said or done something when I didn’t say or do anything. Or feeling as though I overreacted when I let things go. -------------------------- Atena, You wonder “what it must be like to be on the other side of this dynamic.” So I’ve tried to capture how I sometimes feel. I hope it is helpful. I just think you should know that you are not as invisible as you might think. The criticisms you make here and similar ones made by others are heard. For some white guys it is perhaps true, but please, you should understand that it does not apply to everyone. I ask you, also, to take your thinking one step further. If you were a white guy and had heard these criticisms, how do you respond? How do you deal with people who think that you are a careless, inconsiderate and self-absorbed white guy? If you think, as a white male, “well this criticism doesn’t apply to me” are you not then “desperate to give the impression of having shed [your] privilege”? If I understand correctly, you feel that you, as a person, are being ignored because you are a black woman. If this is true, it is a tragedy. It dehumanizes you because instead of being seen as a person, you are not seen due to your race and sex. But, then, do you not commit the same mistake? Suppose that the white man had truly jumped in line because he was overeager to talk to the radio personality. Do you not then dehumanize him by replacing his true intentions with the generalized intentions of white privilege? Is there nothing he can do that is not interpreted through the lens of race? Oh, and if you ever happen to see a dorky looking white boy with a green jacket and blue backpack say hi, because it might be me. =) Allan Me and Black Girls
by Allan, a white guy
The problems happen most often on public transportation. It tends to play out like this: I get on a train. All the seats are full except for one next to a black woman. I move towards the seat. I begin to worry. If I sit down will she think that I think that “I’m mister Center-of-the-Universe-White-Guy! I don’t have to pay attention to the world around me ’cause I’m mister Center-of-the-Universe-White-Guy, and everyone should just get out of my way.”? I decide to stand. The train shudders, and my backpack bumps the woman. I feel the bump but am uncertain what to do. Should I do nothing? It’s the El, this happens, right? Or should I apologize? I look at her and she’s staring at me pointedly. Maybe I stammer out an apology or maybe I do nothing. Either way, I feel threatened. Does she think that I “wander around the world, knocking women and people of color toward and over the margins, oblivious to the trail of wreckage [I] leave behind”? If I apologize too profusely then maybe I will appear “desperate to give the impression of having shed [my] privilege.” However I respond, I always spend some amount of time feeling worse about these encounters than I think I ought to. Wishing I’d said or done something when I didn’t say or do anything. Or feeling as though I overreacted when I let things go.
————————–
Atena,
You wonder “what it must be like to be on the other side of this dynamic.” So I’ve tried to capture how I sometimes feel. I hope it is helpful. I just think you should know that you are not as invisible as you might think. The criticisms you make here and similar ones made by others are heard. For some white guys it is perhaps true, but please, you should understand that it does not apply to everyone.
I ask you, also, to take your thinking one step further. If you were a white guy and had heard these criticisms, how do you respond? How do you deal with people who think that you are a careless, inconsiderate and self-absorbed white guy? If you think, as a white male, “well this criticism doesn’t apply to me” are you not then “desperate to give the impression of having shed [your] privilege”?
If I understand correctly, you feel that you, as a person, are being ignored because you are a black woman. If this is true, it is a tragedy. It dehumanizes you because instead of being seen as a person, you are not seen due to your race and sex. But, then, do you not commit the same mistake? Suppose that the white man had truly jumped in line because he was overeager to talk to the radio personality. Do you not then dehumanize him by replacing his true intentions with the generalized intentions of white privilege? Is there nothing he can do that is not interpreted through the lens of race?

Oh, and if you ever happen to see a dorky looking white boy with a green jacket and blue backpack say hi, because it might be me. =)

Allan

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